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Serby Sunday Conversation with James Bettcher

Defenderdawg : 6/16/2018 8:54 pm
James Bettcher, the blue-collar guy now leading Giants defense
Link - ( New Window )
Very likeable coaching staff  
adamg : 6/16/2018 9:14 pm : link
Without the slick back Mac daddy
Macadont  
mattlawson : 6/16/2018 9:19 pm : link
.
Weird answer to the first question...  
Milton : 6/16/2018 9:32 pm : link
Quote:
Q: If you could sit down with any defensive coach in history, who would it be?
A: Coach [Bill] Parcells for sure. I mean, come on, what he’s done as both a head coach, as a defensive coach is just amazing. Some of the things that we still do today in the game have their roots to the multiple defensive fronts and looks that they ran when he was a coach, there’s no question. … The toughness his players played with. Obviously Mike Ditka, I’d love to sit down and just hear his stories.
How could anybody in their right mind give credit to Parcells over Belichick as the defensive mastermind of the great Giants defenses of the late 80's? And I get that Ditka was head coach of the '85 Bears, but it was Buddy Ryan who ran the defense...and the question was about "any defensive coach" in history, not head coach of a great defense. But, hey, at least Parcells came from the defensive side of the ball, Ditka was offense.

Other than that, it was the same old cliches we hear every time a new defensive coordinator is introduced. Have you ever heard one say he wants his players to be less aggressive, less physical, less smart, etc. And of course he wouldn't be a defensive coordinator if he didn't declare that he wants a defense that dictates to the offense, not vice versa.

I'm as excited about Bettcher as anybody. I think he is going to do a great job based on his history of success, not his litany of cliches.
Milton bringing the heat  
adamg : 6/16/2018 9:35 pm : link
"Light only comes from heat."
RE: Weird answer to the first question...  
steve in ky : 6/16/2018 9:39 pm : link
In comment 13992930 Milton said:
Quote:


Quote:


Q: If you could sit down with any defensive coach in history, who would it be?
A: Coach [Bill] Parcells for sure. I mean, come on, what he’s done as both a head coach, as a defensive coach is just amazing. Some of the things that we still do today in the game have their roots to the multiple defensive fronts and looks that they ran when he was a coach, there’s no question. … The toughness his players played with. Obviously Mike Ditka, I’d love to sit down and just hear his stories.

How could anybody in their right mind give credit to Parcells over Belichick as the defensive mastermind of the great Giants defenses of the late 80's? And I get that Ditka was head coach of the '85 Bears, but it was Buddy Ryan who ran the defense...and the question was about "any defensive coach" in history, not head coach of a great defense. But, hey, at least Parcells came from the defensive side of the ball, Ditka was offense.

Other than that, it was the same old cliches we hear every time a new defensive coordinator is introduced. Have you ever heard one say he wants his players to be less aggressive, less physical, less smart, etc. And of course he wouldn't be a defensive coordinator if he didn't declare that he wants a defense that dictates to the offense, not vice versa.

I'm as excited about Bettcher as anybody. I think he is going to do a great job based on his history of success, not his litany of cliches.


He grew up a Bears fan so I think he added Dikta for the exact reason he mentioned, "just hear his stories".

I think you are reading too much into his answer.
RE: RE: Weird answer to the first question...  
Milton : 6/16/2018 9:44 pm : link
In comment 13992936 steve in ky said:
Quote:

He grew up a Bears fan so I think he added Dikta for the exact reason he mentioned, "just hear his stories".

I think you are reading too much into his answer.
And Buddy Ryan is dead (so not much to be gained by sitting down with him) and Belichick is still in the game (so it wouldn't play well to show that kind of respect to someone he is still coaching against). I sorta get it.

But still...
You are reading way too much  
TrueBlue56 : 6/16/2018 10:12 pm : link
Into it Milton.

Bettcher Wasn't just answering the question from a defensive coordinator standpoint. He is talking about 2 hall of fame coaches who have had great success. Parcells and ditka were both head coaches of team's that had dominant defenses and won superbowls. As the head coach they had to deal with the different personalities of the players and get the most out of them.

The article is a fluff piece, that's all that it is. Nothing worth critiquing or reading that much into.

I am very interested to see what bettcher will do with this defense and I think it will get better as we continue to rebuild the roster.
RE: You are reading way too much  
Milton : 6/16/2018 10:28 pm : link
In comment 13992948 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
Bettcher Wasn't just answering the question from a defensive coordinator standpoint. He is talking about 2 hall of fame coaches who have had great success. Parcells and ditka were both head coaches of team's that had dominant defenses and won superbowls.
Well then he didn't listen to the question, because it asked specifically about "defensive coaches" and besides that, he gives Parcells credit for Belichick's innovations.
Milton  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/16/2018 11:10 pm : link
Belichick didn't become DC until 1985. Parcells was the DC in 81-82.

Belichick was a bit of a prodigy (he was really young at the time) but he didn't form the foundation of the Giants 3-4 defense...Parcells did.
his 7 year old is making power point presentations?  
GiantsFan84 : 6/16/2018 11:19 pm : link
nobody else found this as the weirdest part of the article?
RE: Milton  
Milton : 6/16/2018 11:52 pm : link
In comment 13992966 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Belichick didn't become DC until 1985. Parcells was the DC in 81-82.

Belichick was a bit of a prodigy (he was really young at the time) but he didn't form the foundation of the Giants 3-4 defense...Parcells did.
It was Parcells who brought the 3-4 defense to the Giants, but it's not like he invented it. It was Belichick who took it to another level, Belichick who innovated with his usage of personnel (the famed 2 DL defense vs the Bills in SB25). And while Belichick may have learned a lot from Parcells about head coaching, it's Saban who Belichick gives a lot of credit when he speaks about learning defense (and the feeling is mutual from Saban).

If you wanted to pick someone's brain about being a head coach, I could understand choosing Parcells over Belichick (although I wouldn't necessarily agree, it's a debatable point); but when it comes to picking someone's brain about defense, I can't see any reasonable argument for choosing Parcells over Belichick.

My guess is that he didn't want to give that kind of honor/credit to a current adversary. It could also be that he doesn't like the guy or perhaps he's already sat down with Belichick in the past, so no need to do it again!

But when I think of Bill Parcells, it's as a head coach that I give him his most credit. His greatest talents were 1) putting together a coaching staff, 2) game day decisions, and 3) motivating players. He was also good at evaluating the talent on his roster, but not necessarily good at evaluating college talent. As a defensive mind, all I can really say about the guy is that he favors the 3-4 defense (and so does Bettcher).

All that being said, it's possible I'm not giving Parcells enough credit as a teacher when it comes to the defensive side of the ball. He coached up some pretty good linebackers during his time as LB coach and spent more than a decade coaching the position on the college level.
RE: RE: Milton  
Joey in VA : 6/17/2018 12:21 am : link
In comment 13992975 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13992966 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Belichick didn't become DC until 1985. Parcells was the DC in 81-82.

Belichick was a bit of a prodigy (he was really young at the time) but he didn't form the foundation of the Giants 3-4 defense...Parcells did.

It was Parcells who brought the 3-4 defense to the Giants, but it's not like he invented it. It was Belichick who took it to another level, Belichick who innovated with his usage of personnel (the famed 2 DL defense vs the Bills in SB25). And while Belichick may have learned a lot from Parcells about head coaching, it's Saban who Belichick gives a lot of credit when he speaks about learning defense (and the feeling is mutual from Saban).

If you wanted to pick someone's brain about being a head coach, I could understand choosing Parcells over Belichick (although I wouldn't necessarily agree, it's a debatable point); but when it comes to picking someone's brain about defense, I can't see any reasonable argument for choosing Parcells over Belichick.

My guess is that he didn't want to give that kind of honor/credit to a current adversary. It could also be that he doesn't like the guy or perhaps he's already sat down with Belichick in the past, so no need to do it again!

But when I think of Bill Parcells, it's as a head coach that I give him his most credit. His greatest talents were 1) putting together a coaching staff, 2) game day decisions, and 3) motivating players. He was also good at evaluating the talent on his roster, but not necessarily good at evaluating college talent. As a defensive mind, all I can really say about the guy is that he favors the 3-4 defense (and so does Bettcher).

All that being said, it's possible I'm not giving Parcells enough credit as a teacher when it comes to the defensive side of the ball. He coached up some pretty good linebackers during his time as LB coach and spent more than a decade coaching the position on the college level.
Are you this miserable in real life? Our new DC gives excited, honest answers and you shit on the guy for wanting to talk to Bill Parcells like he's a fucking also ran who did nothing but ride Belichick's coattails.
Seriously though  
adamg : 6/17/2018 12:27 am : link
This is nitpicking of the highest order. Let's go in depth on the three people he would have dinner with next...

RE: RE: RE: Milton  
Milton : 6/17/2018 12:52 am : link
In comment 13992982 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Are you this miserable in real life? Our new DC gives excited, honest answers and you shit on the guy for wanting to talk to Bill Parcells like he's a fucking also ran who did nothing but ride Belichick's coattails.
I'm not miserable, my sock brother, but I was surprised by his answer to the first question and his answer to the remaining questions were all the standard cliches whenever a new DC comes onboard. So I called it as I saw it and from there-on I was just responding to the follow up comments. I did admit that it's possible I don't give Parcells enough credit as a teacher, but it was innovation on defense that Bettcher was crediting as the reason for a sit-down, not success as a teacher. And to say that I treated Parcells as if he were an also ran who did nothing but ride Belichick's coattails is hardly fair. I give Parcells plenty of credit as a head coach in my comments above.

p.s.--How can you read the following quote...
Quote:
I mean, come on, what he’s done as both a head coach, as a defensive coach is just amazing. Some of the things that we still do today in the game have their roots to the multiple defensive fronts and looks that they ran when he was a coach, there’s no question.
...and not think of Belichick?
It's like raving about Donovan when Bob Dylan is in the room - ( New Window )
RE: Seriously though  
Milton : 6/17/2018 12:55 am : link
In comment 13992983 adamg said:
Quote:
This is nitpicking of the highest order.
Guilty as charged, but nitpicking is all that's left when everything else has been discussed to death and it's six week until training camp.
Milton  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/17/2018 1:41 am : link
I hear what you are saying, but I grew up in that era. And all during those years, LT, Martin, Carson, Burt, etc. didn't talk about Belichick. They talked about and credited Parcells.

Parcells (and LT) took a terrible defense and in one year turned it into a top tier defense. This was before Belichick was even there. I barely knew Belichick was a coach on that team even after his was promoted.

Now, in hindsight, I'm sure he grew and evolved and became a major asset. But that defense turned around and became very tough before he was there. And this is when Parcells ditched half the team after the 1983 debacle and had scrubs playing in the secondary like Bill Currier and Pete Shaw.
Bellichick  
mattyblue : 6/17/2018 3:20 am : link
has stated on plenty of occasions that Parcells ran that defense and he was essentially told what to do at all times. By the second super bowl I am sure Bill B had a lot of input, but for the most part he has repeatedly admitted he basically did ride on Parcells coattails.

Bellichick became the greatest coach ever arguably, but while he was with the Giants he learned on the go and caught a huge break with Parcells.
I guess it's all about your perception of the transition...  
Milton : 6/17/2018 4:33 am : link
...from Bill Parcells's defense to Bill Belichick's defense. I won't argue the point any further, instead I'll leave you with a quote, an image, and a link.

From David Halberstam’s The Education of a Coach...
Quote:
There was one terrible moment, during a game, when Belichick called a blitz, and Parcells seemed to oppose it. They went ahead with it and the blitz worked — the other team had done what Belichick expected and not what Parcells had — but Parcells was furious, and over the open microphones in the middle of a game, he let go, “Yeah, you’re a genius, everyone knows it, a goddamn genius, but that’s why you failed as a head coach — that’s why you’ll never be a head coach… some genius.” It was deeply shocking to everyone who heard it; they were the cruelest words imaginable.

From the Hall of Fame in Canton...



A detailed article about the Super Bowl 25 game plan - ( New Window )
It was Parcell's defense  
section125 : 6/17/2018 6:49 am : link
but the SB game vs Buffalo was Belichick IIRC.
Milton  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/17/2018 9:17 am : link
And soon after, Belichick was hired away from the Giants and was recognized as a top-notch coach by fans by that point (1990).

But my strong impression was that it was a journey for him to get to that point. In the 1980s, as a fan who closely followed the team, I never believed this was Belichick's defense. Obviously he grew into the position.

When the Bears were really good, their players often came out in support of Buddy Ryan vis a vis Mike Diktka in terms of who actually ran that defense. I don't recall Giants defensive players in the 1980s even mentioning Belichick.
RE: Weird answer to the first question...  
Scyber : 6/17/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 13992930 Milton said:
Quote:


Quote:


Q: If you could sit down with any defensive coach in history, who would it be?
A: Coach [Bill] Parcells for sure. I mean, come on, what he’s done as both a head coach, as a defensive coach is just amazing. Some of the things that we still do today in the game have their roots to the multiple defensive fronts and looks that they ran when he was a coach, there’s no question. … The toughness his players played with. Obviously Mike Ditka, I’d love to sit down and just hear his stories.

How could anybody in their right mind give credit to Parcells over Belichick as the defensive mastermind of the great Giants defenses of the late 80's? And I get that Ditka was head coach of the '85 Bears, but it was Buddy Ryan who ran the defense...and the question was about "any defensive coach" in history, not head coach of a great defense. But, hey, at least Parcells came from the defensive side of the ball, Ditka was offense.

Other than that, it was the same old cliches we hear every time a new defensive coordinator is introduced. Have you ever heard one say he wants his players to be less aggressive, less physical, less smart, etc. And of course he wouldn't be a defensive coordinator if he didn't declare that he wants a defense that dictates to the offense, not vice versa.

I'm as excited about Bettcher as anybody. I think he is going to do a great job based on his history of success, not his litany of cliches.


He may have also interpretted "in history" as just former coaches. Perhaps since Belichick is still coaching he didn't think of him as a possible answer.
It seems to me Milton’s interpretation  
UberAlias : 6/17/2018 9:32 am : link
Is prejudiced by what B.B. has accomplished in following years with the Patriots.
Serby is a hack  
TMS : 6/17/2018 5:47 pm : link
looking to write a column. Thats his job, forget about insight or any real knowledge there.
...  
ColHowPepper : 6/17/2018 6:39 pm : link
agree with TMS, a nothing puff piece

but on the Parcells question, let's not forget that he first came to the Giants as Perkins LBs coach for two years before leaving for a year, so that's real provenance for when he introduced the 3-4 to NYG
Belichick  
Alwaysblue22 : 6/18/2018 8:24 am : link
Will never tell you that he is on the payroll of the CIA. His secret to success.
RE: Milton  
GeofromNJ : 6/18/2018 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13993054 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
And soon after, Belichick was hired away from the Giants and was recognized as a top-notch coach by fans by that point (1990).

But my strong impression was that it was a journey for him to get to that point. In the 1980s, as a fan who closely followed the team, I never believed this was Belichick's defense. Obviously he grew into the position.

When the Bears were really good, their players often came out in support of Buddy Ryan vis a vis Mike Diktka in terms of who actually ran that defense. I don't recall Giants defensive players in the 1980s even mentioning Belichick.

If the quote is correct, Parcell's comment must have come when both coaches were with the Jets. Parcells says to BB, "that's why you failed as a head coach", meaning after the Browns fired BB. Seems odd, too, that Parcells would nominate BB for the Jets job if he thought BB had already failed. Halberstram is a reputable journalist, but this story stretches credulity.
Puff pieces do nothing for me.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/18/2018 8:09 pm : link
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