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Vikings deny permission

Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 3:33 pm
Per Schefter on Twitter. Vikings denied permission for us to speak to Stefanski. Wow!
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Ben McAdoo  
SHO'NUFF : 2/10/2018 6:14 pm : link
come on down!
RE: ...  
Jim in Tampa : 2/10/2018 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13828668 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dick move on the part of the Vikings.


It's a dick move when the other team does it to yours, but when your team does it...it's just business.

I can see why the Vikes wouldn't want to lose two of their offensive coaches to the NYG.
Jim  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/10/2018 6:15 pm : link
It's a dick move because Stefanski interviewed with the Vikings for their OC job and was turned down. He's got one year left on his contract. It was a dick move.
I smell a rat.  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 2/10/2018 6:18 pm : link
Shurmur seems like a smart guy. I donít think he would have waited around this long for Stefanski if he had reason to believe Zimmer was goin to block him.
RE: Iíll simply say that ... ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13828697 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Itís piss poor people mgmt to block someone from a promotion ...

In the not so distant past, the Giants have blocked Peter Giunta, Kevin Gilbride Jr., and Chris Palmer from interviewing for positions that would have been promotions for them.

Every team has done this at some point or another. Enough with the drama and outrage.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Trying to think of the Andy Reid coaching tree  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 6:20 pm : link
In comment 13828705 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
Brad Childress and Marty Mohrinweig are still out there I think. Not that I am advocating for either

Darrell Bevell is from that same tree. He was OC under Childress in Minnesota.
RE: RE: Iíll simply say that ... ...  
Jim in Tampa : 2/10/2018 6:26 pm : link
In comment 13828715 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13828697 Spider56 said:


Quote:


Itís piss poor people mgmt to block someone from a promotion ...


In the not so distant past, the Giants have blocked Peter Giunta, Kevin Gilbride Jr., and Chris Palmer from interviewing for positions that would have been promotions for them.

Every team has done this at some point or another. Enough with the drama and outrage. Link - ( New Window )


Exactly! I mentioned Giunta on another thread.

I can't recall anyone calling the Giants "dicks" when they blocked one of their own coaches.

I can see why the Vikes wouldn't want their old OC to take one of their coaches. The Vikes have to do what's good for their own team.
RE: RE: RE: Iíll simply say that ... ...  
robbieballs2003 : 2/10/2018 6:29 pm : link
In comment 13828725 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13828715 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13828697 Spider56 said:


Quote:


Itís piss poor people mgmt to block someone from a promotion ...


In the not so distant past, the Giants have blocked Peter Giunta, Kevin Gilbride Jr., and Chris Palmer from interviewing for positions that would have been promotions for them.

Every team has done this at some point or another. Enough with the drama and outrage. Link - ( New Window )



Exactly! I mentioned Giunta on another thread.

I can't recall anyone calling the Giants "dicks" when they blocked one of their own coaches.

I can see why the Vikes wouldn't want their old OC to take one of their coaches. The Vikes have to do what's good for their own team.


Once again, different circumstances. Did the Giants interview these coaches for a promotion, hire someone outside the organization without any connection, and then deny them permission to seek a promotion? It is one thing to deny permission for a promotion and another to tell a guy how much they value him but pass him over.
RE: RE: RE: Iíll simply say that ... ...  
BigBlueShock : 2/10/2018 6:39 pm : link
In comment 13828725 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13828715 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13828697 Spider56 said:


Quote:


Itís piss poor people mgmt to block someone from a promotion ...


In the not so distant past, the Giants have blocked Peter Giunta, Kevin Gilbride Jr., and Chris Palmer from interviewing for positions that would have been promotions for them.

Every team has done this at some point or another. Enough with the drama and outrage. Link - ( New Window )



Exactly! I mentioned Giunta on another thread.

I can't recall anyone calling the Giants "dicks" when they blocked one of their own coaches.

I can see why the Vikes wouldn't want their old OC to take one of their coaches. The Vikes have to do what's good for their own team.

Oh please. Give me a break. You really think that we believe that you remember the threads when Guinta was denied permission? Iíll go out on a limb and say there was probably people on those threads calling out the Giants. Unless of course you think that every single poster has the same opinion, which has never happened in the history of BBI.

The Giants were dicks for blocking guys of a chance at career advancement and so are the Vikings. Why does it have to be one or the other? You can also continue to ignore the fact that this guy interviewed for the promotion and got turned down by the Vikings. That to me makes it a different situation. If Guinta had interviewed for a coordinator job and got beat by an outsider, it would absolutely be a dick move by the Giants to not allow him to interview with another team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Iíll simply say that ... ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 6:47 pm : link
In comment 13828731 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13828725 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 13828715 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13828697 Spider56 said:


Quote:


Itís piss poor people mgmt to block someone from a promotion ...


In the not so distant past, the Giants have blocked Peter Giunta, Kevin Gilbride Jr., and Chris Palmer from interviewing for positions that would have been promotions for them.

Every team has done this at some point or another. Enough with the drama and outrage. Link - ( New Window )



Exactly! I mentioned Giunta on another thread.

I can't recall anyone calling the Giants "dicks" when they blocked one of their own coaches.

I can see why the Vikes wouldn't want their old OC to take one of their coaches. The Vikes have to do what's good for their own team.



Once again, different circumstances. Did the Giants interview these coaches for a promotion, hire someone outside the organization without any connection, and then deny them permission to seek a promotion? It is one thing to deny permission for a promotion and another to tell a guy how much they value him but pass him over.

You sure about that?

Peter Giunta interviewed for DC with the Giants before they eventually settled on Bill Sheridan and denied permission for him to interview elsewhere in the very same offseason. Granted, it was an internal promotion for Sheridan, so it's not exactly apples to apples, but that's almost splitting hairs. The point is, Giunta was passed over and blocked by the Giants in the same offseason.

Giants interviewed Giunta (NYT)

Giants blocked Giunta (BBI)
RE: RE: BS Duce or Bevell the only Choices  
paesan98 : 2/10/2018 6:50 pm : link
In comment 13828664 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13828635 Dave in VA said:


Quote:


In this big wide world of football...this is all the NY Football Giants can come up with....Bevell or Duce....that is BS...beat the bushes....got to be plenty of guys that have something to offer.... I don't want Duce in a NYG coaching staff.....I prefer to remember him as a great adversary....and I especially dont want to go begging the Eagles....let's find our own OC



? You know Shurmur used to coach for the Eagles, right?

Being loyal to only Ďtrue NY Giantsí as coaches is foolish.


Had to really laugh at the being loyal to only true NY Giants as coaches. As soon as we do that, you'll have that contingent come out of the woodwork complaining that this is more of the same old shit, this organization will never learn,yada yada yada
dick move?  
bc4life : 2/10/2018 6:51 pm : link
Losing your OC and QB coach in one off season is a lot.
And that was a dick move and I am pretty sure Giants fans agreed.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/10/2018 6:51 pm : link
Obviously not all because BBI isn't one person and neither are all Giants fans. But, if I am not mistaken, some said it was a dick move at the time.
RE: And that was a dick move and I am pretty sure Giants fans agreed.  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 7:00 pm : link
In comment 13828750 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Obviously not all because BBI isn't one person and neither are all Giants fans. But, if I am not mistaken, some said it was a dick move at the time.

I'm sure some did. You can pick any opinion on the planet and someone on BBI has agreed with it at one point or another. But there wasn't the outrage that there is now because we're on the other end of it.

My point has been more about those who keep saying that other coaching candidates will avoid the Vikings in the future as though this scenario is some sort of rare event.

Every team has done this. Future coaching hires will not be affected. Is it a dick move? Yeah, probably. Does it suck if this was Shurmur's preferred OC? Absolutely. Are the Vikings now going to be shunned by future coaching candidates? Not a chance.
This is absolutely a dick move  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2018 7:10 pm : link
Stefanski should be upset about this. They passed him over for a promotion by someone outside the organization and then they don't allow him to come here for a promotion? This isn't a good decision as it might deter future coaches from picking Minnesota if they have multiple options. If Stefanski wants to be a HC someday he first needs to establish himself as an OC.
RE: RE: Agree with Gary  
djstat : 2/10/2018 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13828606 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13828604 TommytheElephant said:


Quote:


Take the Giants out of the equation - the Vikings are setting an AWFUL precedent here AND screwing over Stefanski


Same as the Giants did with Peter Giunta?
Teams do it every year. It is not a bad precedent. It is how it goes. Itís how teams can build a staff with continuity. Teams do it every year. Eagles Didnít let DeDellipe interview last year. Hell Andy Reidís denied Spagnulo the chance to leave Filthy in Ď06 and wound up losing him to NYG in Ď07.

Deal with it.
RE: This is absolutely a dick move  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13828764 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Stefanski should be upset about this. They passed him over for a promotion by someone outside the organization and then they don't allow him to come here for a promotion? This isn't a good decision as it might deter future coaches from picking Minnesota if they have multiple options. If Stefanski wants to be a HC someday he first needs to establish himself as an OC.

Hahaha and just like that...

Not a chance in hell it deters future coaches.
RE: RE: RE: Agree with Gary  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13828765 djstat said:
Quote:
In comment 13828606 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13828604 TommytheElephant said:


Quote:


Take the Giants out of the equation - the Vikings are setting an AWFUL precedent here AND screwing over Stefanski


Same as the Giants did with Peter Giunta?

Teams do it every year. It is not a bad precedent. It is how it goes. Itís how teams can build a staff with continuity. Teams do it every year. Eagles Didnít let DeDellipe interview last year. Hell Andy Reidís denied Spagnulo the chance to leave Filthy in Ď06 and wound up losing him to NYG in Ď07.

Deal with it.

Are you arguing with me by making the same point I've been making through the entire thread? Interesting approach.
RE: ...  
JCin332 : 2/10/2018 7:18 pm : link
In comment 13828668 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dick move on the part of the Vikings.


This...
Absolutely it was a dick move....  
Simms11 : 2/10/2018 7:20 pm : link
Yea the Giants have done it, but what were the circumstances? This is a kick in the nuts to a guy who could have come in here and slowly gained experience as an OC, from one of the more successful and experienced former OCs in the league, and then perhaps could have learned to call a game at some point on his own. In Minn, he remains a QB Coach and works under a guy whose never game-planned or called a game. I donít know, but this would have been in Stefanskiís best interest. Thatís not how you take care of people. So much for loyalty in this league.
RE: RE: This is absolutely a dick move  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2018 7:23 pm : link
In comment 13828767 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13828764 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


Stefanski should be upset about this. They passed him over for a promotion by someone outside the organization and then they don't allow him to come here for a promotion? This isn't a good decision as it might deter future coaches from picking Minnesota if they have multiple options. If Stefanski wants to be a HC someday he first needs to establish himself as an OC.


Hahaha and just like that...

Not a chance in hell it deters future coaches.

OK well if you are a promising young assistant and the Vikings and team B offer you the same position you might be hesitant to take the Vikings job as they might not let you leave. I wasn't saying that nobody will take the Vikings job but I can promise you it COULD be a factor.
Guess they thought  
bc4life : 2/10/2018 7:24 pm : link
they needed him
Those bastards ....!  
short lease : 2/10/2018 7:30 pm : link
Seriously , -

In the real world if a better opportunity comes along, you resign your position with (usually) a 2 week notice and you move up the corporate latter. I guess these guys are considered labor in the same sense as the players?

Denying permission seems so .... anti-american. I guess they don't want key parts of their coaching staff all going to the same place. Too much familiarity if the Giants have to face the Vikings in the NFC championship next year?

That's why I always sign contracts with my pen ... (the one filled with invisible ink).
Got to wonder how Stefanski  
est1986 : 2/10/2018 7:39 pm : link
Feels about those assholes in minny denying him a promotion basically twice in the same week
....  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2018 7:46 pm : link
I wonder if the Giants would have offered the job to Norv Turner had they known Stefanski wouldn't have been available. I have always thought that Turner would have been the perfect OC for Eli.
My guess is the Vikings know that one good year from DeFilippo and he  
jlukes : 2/10/2018 7:57 pm : link
is a HC. They want to keep Stefanski for themselves if/when that happens
And if the Giants were in a similar position, we'd be praising the  
jlukes : 2/10/2018 7:58 pm : link
move to block him
RE: And if the Giants were in a similar position, we'd be praising the  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2018 7:59 pm : link
In comment 13828812 jlukes said:
Quote:
move to block him

No, I would be happy that he stayed but I would still call it a dick move.
DG would have done the same  
TMS : 2/10/2018 8:54 pm : link
thing if it were in the Giants best interests. Think about it !
RE: RE: RE: This is absolutely a dick move  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 9:11 pm : link
In comment 13828780 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13828767 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13828764 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


Stefanski should be upset about this. They passed him over for a promotion by someone outside the organization and then they don't allow him to come here for a promotion? This isn't a good decision as it might deter future coaches from picking Minnesota if they have multiple options. If Stefanski wants to be a HC someday he first needs to establish himself as an OC.


Hahaha and just like that...

Not a chance in hell it deters future coaches.


OK well if you are a promising young assistant and the Vikings and team B offer you the same position you might be hesitant to take the Vikings job as they might not let you leave. I wasn't saying that nobody will take the Vikings job but I can promise you it COULD be a factor.

Except that every single team in the NFL has done this at one point or another.
RE: Those bastards ....!  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 9:14 pm : link
In comment 13828785 short lease said:
Quote:
Seriously , -

In the real world if a better opportunity comes along, you resign your position with (usually) a 2 week notice and you move up the corporate latter. I guess these guys are considered labor in the same sense as the players?

Denying permission seems so .... anti-american. I guess they don't want key parts of their coaching staff all going to the same place. Too much familiarity if the Giants have to face the Vikings in the NFC championship next year?

That's why I always sign contracts with my pen ... (the one filled with invisible ink).

They are contract employees, not at-will employees. If they get fired, they still receive their full contract value. In exchange for that security, they sacrifice full autonomy in making job changes when it suits them.
The NFL really has to change these rules  
twostepgiants : 2/10/2018 10:04 pm : link
Its just not fair to these guys. Its a tough business as it is, they are hired and fired at will. They shouldnít be blocked from promotions.
Relax  
DonQuixote : 2/10/2018 11:05 pm : link
They probably just want a draft pick
RE: The NFL really has to change these rules  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 11:09 pm : link
In comment 13828882 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Its just not fair to these guys. Its a tough business as it is, they are hired and fired at will. They shouldnít be blocked from promotions.

They are paid out for their full contract if/when they get fired, just like any other guaranteed contract employee in any other industry, most of which are also subject to non-compete clauses. There's nothing at-will about that. I'm failing to see what's unfair here other than the Giants not getting access to the guy who Shurmur seemed to favor for OC.
RE: Absolutely it was a dick move....  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 11:22 pm : link
In comment 13828778 Simms11 said:
Quote:
In Minn, he remains a QB Coach and works under a guy whose never game-planned or called a game.

It wasn't exactly a successful tenure, but DeFilippo has been an OC before (Cleveland, 2015) and was under a defensive HC at the time, so he absolutely has gameplanned and called plays before.
RE: RE: Those bastards ....!  
short lease : 2/11/2018 3:03 am : link
In comment 13828847 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13828785 short lease said:


Quote:


Seriously , -

In the real world if a better opportunity comes along, you resign your position with (usually) a 2 week notice and you move up the corporate latter. I guess these guys are considered labor in the same sense as the players?

Denying permission seems so .... anti-american. I guess they don't want key parts of their coaching staff all going to the same place. Too much familiarity if the Giants have to face the Vikings in the NFC championship next year?

That's why I always sign contracts with my pen ... (the one filled with invisible ink).


They are contract employees, not at-will employees. If they get fired, they still receive their full contract value. In exchange for that security, they sacrifice full autonomy in making job changes when it suits them.


Thanks Gator ...

It just seems wrong. These guys are assistants. I doubt he makes much more than around $250,000./yr? Another team (and the fact that they are the Giants makes no difference this time) .... wants to potentially offer him a job that points in an upward slant/curve and puts him in a nice place where (if successful), he might be considered for a HC position that will get him a multi-year, multi-million dollar/per year opportunity.

Who is to say that he will never get another chance at the upper echelon of NFL staffs (not me) .... but, this would have been a nice start towards what might have been financial security for him and his family? Who knows ....? He must be 1 hell of a QB coach?

@ScoutKelley on twitter brought up an interesting name-  
TheMick7 : 2/11/2018 5:48 am : link
Todd Downing Was Raiders OC last year but before that was QB coach w/Raiders (2016-15),Bills (2014),Lions (2013-11,Ass't QB Coach Lions (2010-09) only 37,fits many of the characteristics of Stefanski w/the plus of being an OC
Tc  
TommyWiseau : 2/11/2018 10:29 am : link
Did it with Giunta and basically none on here thought it was dickish.
I doubt the Eagles let us interview Staley. The've already lost their  
Blue21 : 2/11/2018 10:45 am : link
QB Coach and May lose their OC. No way they lose a coach to a division rival.And no way they lose 2 coaches never mind three going into this season. Unless Staley's contract is up which I don't believe it is.
Ths really is the leagues fault...  
Torrag : 2/11/2018 1:13 pm : link
...OC is a clear promotion over a position coach. They need to clearly delineate the levels of coaches.

HC
OC/DC/ST
positions
RE: Ths really is the leagues fault...  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/11/2018 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13829120 Torrag said:
Quote:
...OC is a clear promotion over a position coach. They need to clearly delineate the levels of coaches.

HC
OC/DC/ST
positions

It was a AHC nonsense that caused this. Teams were giving the AHC title to position coaches to claim that was a promotion (or to block one).

I really don't think people understand what being a contract employee means, compared to at-will employment. If you're a contract employee (in any industry), you don't get to leave your company for a competitor just because the competition offers you a promotion. This situation is hardly unique to the NFL. If anything, the NFL is generally more lenient about it than other industries would typically be.
Dunk  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/11/2018 9:20 pm : link
Apples and oranges

In another industry leaving for a competitor generally means a business competitor. Leaving for another NFL club with profit sharing isn't exactly the same thing. To that end it's understandable that they are more lenient, they aren't jumping ship to another professional league.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but thats a bad comparison.
RE: Dunk  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/11/2018 9:54 pm : link
In comment 13829462 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
Apples and oranges

In another industry leaving for a competitor generally means a business competitor. Leaving for another NFL club with profit sharing isn't exactly the same thing. To that end it's understandable that they are more lenient, they aren't jumping ship to another professional league.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but thats a bad comparison.

That's fair in a business sense, but coaches (certainly not assistant coaches) don't really impact the bottom line. They do impact the product on the field, and it is specifically in that context where opposing teams are the competition. I realize the analogy isn't exactly perfect, but I think it's fair in that specific context.
RE: Ths really is the leagues fault...  
mrvax : 2/12/2018 5:30 am : link
In comment 13829120 Torrag said:
Quote:
...OC is a clear promotion over a position coach. They need to clearly delineate the levels of coaches.

HC
OC/DC/ST
positions


I agree with 1 small change. I'd lump ST coach in with positional coaches.

As is, the rule makes no sense. OC/DC is a clear promotion. It places a successful OC/DC right in line toward becoming a HC.

Do team owners actually vote for this shit?
RE: RE: Ths really is the leagues fault...  
Milton : 2/12/2018 5:47 am : link
In comment 13829566 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13829120 Torrag said:


Quote:


...OC is a clear promotion over a position coach. They need to clearly delineate the levels of coaches.

HC
OC/DC/ST
positions



I agree with 1 small change. I'd lump ST coach in with positional coaches.

As is, the rule makes no sense. OC/DC is a clear promotion. It places a successful OC/DC right in line toward becoming a HC.

Do team owners actually vote for this shit?
It used to be you could break a contract to leave for a promotion from position coach to a coordinator, but too many teams were giving guys promotions in title only. And as I said earlier in this thread, it would've essentially been a promotion in title only for Stepanski. Sure, he would've had some added responsibilities when it came to game planning, but it wouldn't've been his offense and he wouldn't've been calling the plays. His main value to the Giants would've been as QB coach, which was his main value to the Vikings, so why should they let him break his contract over that?

Look at it this way, they don't let players break contracts to leave one team for another team even if it might've meant a "promotion" from being a backup on one team to a starter on another. And players have much shorter careers than coaches (potentially speaking), so the lost time is more costly to them.

It's somewhat of a dick move, but some dick moves are more understandable than others. If Patricia had become the head coach and wanted to hire Stepanski to install and run the offense, it would've been more of a dick move.
WHther it's all legal or not, everybody got strung along  
Bill L : 2/12/2018 7:04 am : link
and when the music stopped. it was us that was standing. We either should have had an immediate fall-back or we should have predicted this and been more pro-active and moved on before it ever started. Fishing from a large pool is always better than fishing from an empty one.
RE: RE: RE: Ths really is the leagues fault...  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/12/2018 8:43 am : link
In comment 13829568 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13829566 mrvax said:


Quote:


In comment 13829120 Torrag said:


Quote:


...OC is a clear promotion over a position coach. They need to clearly delineate the levels of coaches.

HC
OC/DC/ST
positions



I agree with 1 small change. I'd lump ST coach in with positional coaches.

As is, the rule makes no sense. OC/DC is a clear promotion. It places a successful OC/DC right in line toward becoming a HC.

Do team owners actually vote for this shit?

It used to be you could break a contract to leave for a promotion from position coach to a coordinator, but too many teams were giving guys promotions in title only. And as I said earlier in this thread, it would've essentially been a promotion in title only for Stepanski. Sure, he would've had some added responsibilities when it came to game planning, but it wouldn't've been his offense and he wouldn't've been calling the plays. His main value to the Giants would've been as QB coach, which was his main value to the Vikings, so why should they let him break his contract over that?

Look at it this way, they don't let players break contracts to leave one team for another team even if it might've meant a "promotion" from being a backup on one team to a starter on another. And players have much shorter careers than coaches (potentially speaking), so the lost time is more costly to them.

It's somewhat of a dick move, but some dick moves are more understandable than others. If Patricia had become the head coach and wanted to hire Stepanski to install and run the offense, it would've been more of a dick move.

Very well said, Milton.
how significant will the OC be to this  
Jersey55 : 2/12/2018 11:18 am : link
team with the HC already saying that he is going to call the plays....
RE: how significant will the OC be to this  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/12/2018 11:28 am : link
In comment 13829770 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
team with the HC already saying that he is going to call the plays....

Do you think OCs only work on gameday?
RE: how significant will the OC be to this  
AnishPatel : 2/12/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13829770 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
team with the HC already saying that he is going to call the plays....


Significant, OCs job goes beyond calling plays.
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