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49ers and Garoppolo have agreed to a five-year, $137.5M

OdellBeckhamJr : 2/8/2018 1:34 pm
pretty good for 8td/5int
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RE: RE: These are all of the first round QB's since 2012  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 3:43 pm : link
In comment 13826951 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13826929 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


The reason I chose 2012 is because, IMO, Andrew Luck was the last "true", can't miss franchise QB to come out:

Andrew Luck (1 overall)
Griffin III (2 overall)
Ryan Tannehill (8 overall)
Brandon Weeden (22 overall)
EJ Manual (16 overall)
Blake Bortles (3 overall)
Manziel (22 overall)
Bridgewater (32 overall)
Winston (1 overall)
Mariota (2 overall)
Goff (1 overall)
Wentz (2 overall)
Paxton Lynch (26 overall)

13 QB's taken in the first round, only 2 sure things. Other than Luck or Wentz, which one do you look back on and say they were worth it?

Conversely, let's see other QB's drafted in rounds 2-4 since 2012, and see if there are more or less hits:

Brock Osweiler (2nd Round)
Russell Wilson (3rd Round)
Nick Foles (3rd Round)
Kirk Cousins (4th Round)
Geno Smith (2nd Round)
Mike Glennon (3rd Round)
Matt Barkley (4th Round)
Ryan Nassib (4th Round)
Tyler Wilson (4th Round)
Landry Jones (4th Round)
Derek Carr (2nd Round)
Jimmy Garrapolo (2nd Round)
Logan Thomas (4th Round)
Garret Grayson (3rd Round)
Sean Mannion (3rd Round)
Bryce Petty (4th Round)
Christian Hackenburg (2nd Round)
Jacoby Brissett (3rd Round)
Cody Kessler (3rd Round)
Connor Cook (4th Round)
Dak Prescott (4th Round)
Cardale Jones (4th Round)
DeShone Kizer (2nd Round)
Davis Webb (3rd Round)
CJ Beathard (3rd Round)
Josh Dobbs (4th Round)

Some solid QB's in there. Are we really seeing a great disparity in talent level of the 1st round QB's vs. rounds 2-4 since 2012? I'm not sure these later round guys are an outlier, anymore. At least not in recent draft history.



Britt, you make a very good point, and I tend to agree with you. 1st round QBs really only have a little better chance of being a franchise QB when you compare to 2nd and 3rd round QBs. But I think you are too harsh on the first round QBs. If Garrapolo and Dak are considered hits, then you have to consider Goff and Winston hits too.

The other thing to consider is that the first round is prone to more reaches than later rounds. Manziel and Manuel should never have been first round picks.


That's sort of my point. You're not getting that much more value in Goff or Winston than you are in Dak or Garrapolo, but the value of the pick was much higher.
And again, I'm not against taking a QB at 2....  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 3:45 pm : link
not at all!

But everything I've posted here has given me pause, and continues to...

I'm surprised more don't feel the same.
RE: Come on  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/8/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13826938 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
man, Goff is pretty close to a sure thing.

As a 2nd year QB he had 62% completion %, 3800 yards, and 28 TD's to 7 picks.

and no DeShaun Watson on your list?

I'd take him over any QB in the your 2nd round or later list.

And Foles gets Britt's "sure thing" nod because, as we know, SB MVP is the only thing that matters for a QB. Foles will now be beloved for all time and the Eagles would be fools to ever move on from him. That's how it works, right?
The "sure thing" was only for the 1st round....  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 3:48 pm : link
the ones bolded in later rounds I just deemed significantly above others in the later rounds.

That's all. There is no agenda.
I don't consider Dak Prescott or Foles or Garrapolo....  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 3:49 pm : link
sure things. But they are going to be starters, and they are going receive large second contracts.
But yeah, Superbowl MVP is pretty nice.  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 3:50 pm : link
If we had a second rounder that was Superbowl MVP, I'd be pretty happy with that pick.
RE: RE: RE: These are all of the first round QB's since 2012  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13826963 Britt in VA said:
Quote:



That's sort of my point. You're not getting that much more value in Goff or Winston than you are in Dak or Garrapolo, but the value of the pick was much higher.



First round QB picks "hit" far more often than later picks. Same as for RBs, DEs, LBs, DBs, OL, etc.

Sure, Dak might be as good as Winston, time will tell ... Kareem Hunt is already better than David Wilson. Leveon Bell runs circles around Trent Richardson.

Marques Colston, a 7th round pick, was so much better than Charles Rogers (2nd overall) or pick any Mike Williams.

Pick 50 late round LB picks since 2012 that turned out better than Aaron Curry... or later round DE picks that turned out better than Vernon Gholston.

I'll also point out the "value" of the Garoppolo pick was never realized - in part because he was picked later in the draft and thus was never given an opportunity to play on a rookie deal, now that he's actually playing - he's costing $28 mil a year against your cap, so there was never any real value in drafting him later.
RE: He sure as hell looks like the real deal  
Beer Man : 2/8/2018 3:55 pm : link
In comment 13826840 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
He's a polished accurate passer. That fact that he got this way after only 7 NFL starts, all of which he won speaks volumes.
But most QBs don't score the big payday until they have proven themselves over 3 to 4 seasons
I agree 100% there is risk  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 3:55 pm : link
with 1st round QB's. that's not even debatable. It might be the position with the most high profile failures.

However, ask yourself this question, if the 2000 draft happens again where do you think Brady goes?

Obviously #1 overall or close to it.

If the 2012 draft happens again, where does Wilson go?

Obviously early 1st round.

If 2013 draft happens again, where does Cousins go?

obviously early 1st round.

Point is that those players fell out of the 1st round for a reason, they had less projection and more perceived risk (Wilson's height) or were considered projects (Brady) or even backup QB's/insurance (Cousins)

Because they worked out well I don't think sets a good enough precedent to wait on your QB. I still think the most "sure thing" QB's will go early or worst case somewhere in the 1st round.

I think you need to trust the scouts.

Being wrong can set a franchise back years, but also not picking a QB in the first and thinking you'll outsmart everyone and take one later in the draft who becomes a franchise QB can set your team back years as well.

No right answer, but I think the odds of finding a franchise QB in the 1st are better than later in the draft, not sure if the #'s prove it or not.
RE: I agree 100% there is risk  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13826991 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


No right answer, but I think the odds of finding a franchise QB in the 1st are better than later in the draft, not sure if the #'s prove it or not.



Without question, the numbers prove far higher hit rates on first round QB draft choices than later round ones.

Just like any other position on the field.
RE: RE: RE: These are all of the first round QB's since 2012  
Emil : 2/8/2018 3:58 pm : link
In comment 13826963 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13826951 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13826929 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


The reason I chose 2012 is because, IMO, Andrew Luck was the last "true", can't miss franchise QB to come out:

Andrew Luck (1 overall)
Griffin III (2 overall)
Ryan Tannehill (8 overall)
Brandon Weeden (22 overall)
EJ Manual (16 overall)
Blake Bortles (3 overall)
Manziel (22 overall)
Bridgewater (32 overall)
Winston (1 overall)
Mariota (2 overall)
Goff (1 overall)
Wentz (2 overall)
Paxton Lynch (26 overall)

13 QB's taken in the first round, only 2 sure things. Other than Luck or Wentz, which one do you look back on and say they were worth it?

Conversely, let's see other QB's drafted in rounds 2-4 since 2012, and see if there are more or less hits:

Brock Osweiler (2nd Round)
Russell Wilson (3rd Round)
Nick Foles (3rd Round)
Kirk Cousins (4th Round)
Geno Smith (2nd Round)
Mike Glennon (3rd Round)
Matt Barkley (4th Round)
Ryan Nassib (4th Round)
Tyler Wilson (4th Round)
Landry Jones (4th Round)
Derek Carr (2nd Round)
Jimmy Garrapolo (2nd Round)
Logan Thomas (4th Round)
Garret Grayson (3rd Round)
Sean Mannion (3rd Round)
Bryce Petty (4th Round)
Christian Hackenburg (2nd Round)
Jacoby Brissett (3rd Round)
Cody Kessler (3rd Round)
Connor Cook (4th Round)
Dak Prescott (4th Round)
Cardale Jones (4th Round)
DeShone Kizer (2nd Round)
Davis Webb (3rd Round)
CJ Beathard (3rd Round)
Josh Dobbs (4th Round)

Some solid QB's in there. Are we really seeing a great disparity in talent level of the 1st round QB's vs. rounds 2-4 since 2012? I'm not sure these later round guys are an outlier, anymore. At least not in recent draft history.



Britt, you make a very good point, and I tend to agree with you. 1st round QBs really only have a little better chance of being a franchise QB when you compare to 2nd and 3rd round QBs. But I think you are too harsh on the first round QBs. If Garrapolo and Dak are considered hits, then you have to consider Goff and Winston hits too.

The other thing to consider is that the first round is prone to more reaches than later rounds. Manziel and Manuel should never have been first round picks.



That's sort of my point. You're not getting that much more value in Goff or Winston than you are in Dak or Garrapolo, but the value of the pick was much higher.


Oh I don't disagree with you at all there. I don't think 1st round QBs are a sure thing. Luck is the exception not the rule.

I'm all for a day 2 pick at QB. I like Mike White (a lot) and Mason Rudolph intrigues me. Of the day 1 QBs the only one I can really see taking, if I am the Giants, is Darnold, and that's just because of his personality + skills. Rosen is so talented, but I think he is a risk. Mayfield is a great player, but I can find a QB with similar abilities in the late first or early second.
Britt  
Milton : 2/8/2018 3:59 pm : link
Let's re-do your list based on the Giants having the second pick in the draft, because the whole point is that they aren't expected to be drafting in the top two again for another twenty or forty years, whereas we can expect them to have a first round pick every year (and I added a couple of years to widen the sample set)....
Quote:
1 1 Jared Goff QB California Los Angeles Rams
1 2 Carson Wentz QB North Dakota State Philadelphia Eagles
1 1 Jameis Winston QB Florida State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1 2 Marcus Mariota QB Oregon Tennessee Titans
1 1 Andrew Luck QB Stanford Indianapolis Colts
1 2 Robert Griffin QB Baylor Washington Redskins
1 1 Cam Newton QB Auburn Carolina Panthers
1 1 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma St. Louis Rams
1 1 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia Detroit Lions

Quote:
1 26 Paxton Lynch QB Memphis Denver Broncos
2 51 Christian Hackenberg QB Penn State New York Jets
3 91 Jacoby Brissett QB North Carolina State New England Patriots
3 93 Cody Kessler QB USC Cleveland Browns
4 100 Connor Cook QB Michigan State Oakland Raiders
4 135 Dak Prescott QB Mississippi State Dallas Cowboys
4 139 Cardale Jones QB Ohio State Buffalo Bills
5 162 Kevin Hogan QB Stanford Kansas City Chiefs
6 187 Nate Sudfeld QB Indiana Washington Redskins
6 191 Jake Rudock QB Michigan Detroit Lions
6 201 Brandon Allen QB Arkansas Jacksonville Jaguars
6 207 Jeff Driskel QB Louisiana Tech San Francisco 49ers
7 223 Brandon Doughty QB Western Kentucky Miami Dolphins
3 75 Garrett Grayson QB Colorado State New Orleans Saints
3 89 Sean Mannion QB Oregon State St. Louis Rams
4 103 Bryce Petty QB Baylor New York Jets
5 147 Brett Hundley QB UCLA Green Bay Packers
7 250 Trevor Siemian QB Northwestern Denver Broncos
1 3 Blake Bortles QB Central Florida Jacksonville Jaguars
1 22 Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M Cleveland Browns
1 32 Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville Minnesota Vikings
2 36 Derek Carr QB Fresno State Oakland Raiders
2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo QB Eastern Illinois New England Patriots
4 120 Logan Thomas QB Virginia Tech Arizona Cardinals
4 135 Tom Savage QB Pittsburgh Houston Texans
5 163 Aaron Murray QB Georgia Kansas City Chiefs
5 164 AJ McCarron QB Alabama Cincinnati Bengals
6 178 Zach Mettenberger QB LSU Tennessee Titans
6 183 David Fales QB San Jose State Chicago Bears
6 194 Keith Wenning QB Ball State Baltimore Ravens
6 213 Tajh Boyd QB Clemson New York Jets
6 214 Garrett Gilbert QB Southern Methodist St. Louis Rams
1 16 EJ Manuel QB Florida State Buffalo Bills
2 39 Geno Smith QB West Virginia New York Jets
3 73 Mike Glennon QB North Carolina State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
4 98 Matt Barkley QB USC Philadelphia Eagles
4 110 Ryan Nassib QB Syracuse New York Giants
4 112 Tyler Wilson QB Arkansas Oakland Raiders
4 115 Landry Jones QB Oklahoma Pittsburgh Steelers
7 221 Brad Sorensen QB Southern Utah San Diego Chargers
7 234 Zac Dysert QB Miami (Ohio) Denver Broncos
7 237 B.J. Daniels QB South Florida San Francisco 49ers
7 249 Sean Renfree QB Duke Atlanta Falcons
1 8 Ryan Tannehill QB Texas A&M Miami Dolphins
1 22 Brandon Weeden QB Oklahoma State Cleveland Browns
2 57 Brock Osweiler QB Arizona State Denver Broncos
3 75 Russell Wilson QB Wisconsin Seattle Seahawks
3 88 Nick Foles QB Arizona Philadelphia Eagles
4 102 Kirk Cousins QB Michigan State Washington Redskins
6 185 Ryan Lindley QB San Diego State Arizona Cardinals
7 243 B.J. Coleman QB Tennessee-Chattanooga Green Bay Packers
7 253 Chandler Harnish QB Northern Illinois Indianapolis Colts
1 8 Jake Locker QB Washington Tennessee Titans
1 10 Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri Jacksonville Jaguars
1 12 Christian Ponder QB Florida State Minnesota Vikings
2 35 Andy Dalton QB Texas Christian Cincinnati Bengals
2 36 Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada-Reno San Francisco 49ers
3 74 Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas New England Patriots
5 135 Ricky Stanzi QB Iowa Kansas City Chiefs
5 152 T.J Yates QB North Carolina Houston Texans
5 160 Nathan Enderle QB Idaho Chicago Bears
6 180 Tyrod Taylor QB Virginia Tech Baltimore Ravens
7 208 Greg McElroy QB Alabama New York Jets
1 25 Tim Tebow QB Florida Denver Broncos
2 48 Jimmy Clausen QB Notre Dame Carolina Panthers
3 85 Colt McCoy QB Texas Cleveland Browns
4 122 Mike Kafka QB Northwestern Philadelphia Eagles
5 155 John Skelton QB Fordham Arizona Cardinals
5 168 Jonathan Crompton QB Tennessee San Diego Chargers
6 176 Rusty Smith QB Florida Atlantic Tennessee Titans
6 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan Chicago Bears
6 199 Joe Webb QB Alabama-Birmingham Minnesota Vikings
6 204 Tony Pike QB Cincinnati Carolina Panthers
7 209 Levi Brown QB Troy Buffalo Bills
7 239 Sean Canfield QB Oregon State New Orleans Saints
7 250 Zac Robinson QB Oklahoma State New England Patriots
1 5 Mark Sanchez QB USC New York Jets
1 17 Josh Freeman QB Kansas State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2 44 Pat White QB West Virginia Miami Dolphins
4 101 Stephen McGee QB Texas A&M Dallas Cowboys
5 151 Rhett Bomar QB Sam Houston State New York Giants
5 171 Nate Davis QB Ball State San Francisco 49ers
6 174 Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State Denver Broncos
6 178 Mike Teel QB Rutgers Seattle Seahawks
6 196 Keith Null QB West Texas A&M St. Louis Rams
6 201 Curtis Painter QB Purdue Indianapolis Colts


The bottom line is the Giants can't miss with this pick.  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 4:01 pm : link
If they do, we're f-cked for a long time.

That scares me.
RE: The bottom line is the Giants can't miss with this pick.  
Milton : 2/8/2018 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13827005 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
If they do, we're f-cked for a long time.

That scares me.
You can't draft scared. You do your homework and trust your evaluation.
Yes, we dont want to screw it up  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 4:10 pm : link
but the Chargers took Ryan Leaf in the 1998 draft over Peyton Manning. That's as big a fuck up as there's ever been in the NFL.

3 years later they had Drew Brees. 3 years after that they had Rivers too. And had as good a shot as anybody to win a SuperBowl from 2004-2009 but came up a little short.

Anyway, you can fuck up the pick with a QB. History is littered with failed picks at all positions (or injured - keep in mind injury tragedies cut non-QB careers short a hell of a lot more often than for the most protected player on the field).

Can't draft scared.
RE: The bottom line is the Giants can't miss with this pick.  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13827005 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
If they do, we're f-cked for a long time.

That scares me.


Agree they can't miss, but it's not as bad now with the new CBA as it used to be. Consider that Sam Bradford signed a 6 year 90+ million dollar contract with $50M guaranteed when he was drafted in 2010 and Mitch Trubisky last year signed a 4 year $29M contract with a significantly higher cap.

Not as crippling as it once was. But that value is something that would be really awesome to get a few years out of (starting QB making 8M per season, not $25M).



RE: RE: The bottom line is the Giants can't miss with this pick.  
YAJ2112 : 2/8/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13827010 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13827005 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


If they do, we're f-cked for a long time.

That scares me.

You can't draft scared. You do your homework and trust your evaluation.


And if the evaluation tells them that the QBs aren't worth taking?
RE: RE: RE: The bottom line is the Giants can't miss with this pick.  
Milton : 2/8/2018 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13827024 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 13827010 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13827005 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


If they do, we're f-cked for a long time.

That scares me.

You can't draft scared. You do your homework and trust your evaluation.



And if the evaluation tells them that the QBs aren't worth taking?
Then don't take one!
If Reese were still the GM...  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 4:28 pm : link
I think it would be a stone cold lock we were taking a QB.

With the way Gettleman is shaking things up in the scouting department, and based on his overall philosophy, I'm not so sure QB is their highest rated player at 2.
I don't think Gettleman  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 4:31 pm : link
or any GM for that matter would simply take highest rated player in a vacuum.

I think they all have tiers and position weights and then balance players ranking, position weight, and need to make their selection - especially in the 1st round.

So Gettleman might have a player rated higher overall, but could still take a QB depending on what CLE does and how the Giants have their board.

pure guess on my part though, I haven't listened to Gettleman talk draft like we've heard Reese over the years.
I don't think we could be clear on what his philosophy is.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/8/2018 4:33 pm : link
"With the second pick, we're going to take the best player," Gettleman said. "They screamed at me in Carolina, 'You've got to draft a tackle, you've got to draft a tackle.' If the value's not there when you pick, you're going to make a mistake. You'll make a mistake. We're going to set ourselves up so that we can take the best player available. And if the best player available is a quarterback, then that's what we're going to do."
Well, that's the question, isn't it.  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 4:37 pm : link
In their eyes, who's going to be the best available player in the draft at 2? Second question is, do they have 2 QB's as the top two players in the draft?
Third question would be....  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 4:38 pm : link
Do the NYG and Cleveland Browns have the same player as the best player in the draft?
RE: Third question would be....  
Milton : 2/8/2018 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13827058 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Do the NYG and Cleveland Browns have the same player as the best player in the draft?
My prediction is that the Browns will prefer Darnold because he is the safer QB and the Giants will prefer Rosen because he is the better QB. So everybody goes home happy!
RE: RE: Third question would be....  
Britt in VA : 2/8/2018 4:54 pm : link
In comment 13827072 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13827058 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Do the NYG and Cleveland Browns have the same player as the best player in the draft?

My prediction is that the Browns will prefer Darnold because he is the safer QB and the Giants will prefer Rosen because he is the better QB. So everybody goes home happy!


So you believe the Giants have Darnold and Rosen as the best players in the draft? Or you believe they have Rosen as the best player, and another position second but they'll get lucky because the Browns won't pick their guy?
Still can't believe they let him go ...  
short lease : 2/8/2018 4:55 pm : link
Brady is 40. How many real years does he have left? Garoppolo is what ... in his late 20s? Does Kraft know how hard it is to find quality QB's. He probably forgot because TB has been there so long ...

Joe Montana finished his career as a Chief
Ronnie Lott and Jerry Rice were Raiders ....

No mater who they are you have to know when to say when as an owner/GM. I believe BB was forced into that move and that is why he let him go for a 2nd rounder (out of spite).
...  
christian : 2/8/2018 7:52 pm : link
There are reports with the guarantees between 75-95M. Depending on that number, the 9ers overall cap health, and the dead money after 3 or so years, it's not outrageous. Risky, but not outrageous.

Quarterback talent costs resources, either money or draft pick(s).

It's a unique role in all of sports. He has an impact on virtually every offensive play. Paying someone 15% of your yearly budget isn't so wild.
Im still amazed that people here  
chopperhatch : 2/8/2018 8:02 pm : link
Still beat that tired drum that if the Giants draft a QB that it is assumed that Eli doesnt get his two years left on his deal.

If they draft a 20 y/o QB, he can sit for even 2 years.
RE: Yes, we dont want to screw it up  
figgy2989 : 2/8/2018 8:45 pm : link
In comment 13827017 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
but the Chargers took Ryan Leaf in the 1998 draft over Peyton Manning. That's as big a fuck up as there's ever been in the NFL.

3 years later they had Drew Brees. 3 years after that they had Rivers too. And had as good a shot as anybody to win a SuperBowl from 2004-2009 but came up a little short.

Anyway, you can fuck up the pick with a QB. History is littered with failed picks at all positions (or injured - keep in mind injury tragedies cut non-QB careers short a hell of a lot more often than for the most protected player on the field).

Can't draft scared.


Huh? Peyton went first overall, Leaf second. Chargers never had a shot at Manning.
FA  
Dragon : 2/8/2018 8:51 pm : link
I really like Garoppolo but how do you explain this amount of money due to five or six games? Many here are hoping we spend close to 30+ mil in FA every FA player just called his agent show me the money. FA is Fools Gold for a team in the Giants situation they lack overall talent, leadership and those players with any talent will be contractual or age concerns in the next two years.

That #2, pick is real gold but the moves to change the overall roster this year is even more important. This team has possibly eight to twelve NFL players worthy of returning for this season. The rest are all overvalued vets or contractual headaches in the next two years move on from all these guys now. Not sure why we keep adding marginal players to our roster it may seem like small amounts of money however are these guys really NFL players is the true question?
RE: Im still amazed that people here  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/8/2018 9:12 pm : link
In comment 13827177 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Still beat that tired drum that if the Giants draft a QB that it is assumed that Eli doesnt get his two years left on his deal.

If they draft a 20 y/o QB, he can sit for even 2 years.


High draft picks simply don't sit that long. A QB drafted #2 overall is likely going to be a cap hit around 6-7 million per year on a 4 year deal. They're not going to let that cap money sit on the bench and do nothing for half of a rookie contract.
RE: Im still amazed that people here  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/8/2018 9:13 pm : link
In comment 13827177 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Still beat that tired drum that if the Giants draft a QB that it is assumed that Eli doesnt get his two years left on his deal.

If they draft a 20 y/o QB, he can sit for even 2 years.


High draft picks simply don't sit that long. A QB drafted #2 overall is likely going to be a cap hit around 6-7 million per year on a 4 year deal. They're not going to let that cap money sit on the bench and do nothing for half of a rookie contract.
RE: RE: Im still amazed that people here  
Milton : 2/8/2018 9:32 pm : link
In comment 13827223 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:

High draft picks simply don't sit that long. A QB drafted #2 overall is likely going to be a cap hit around 6-7 million per year on a 4 year deal. They're not going to let that cap money sit on the bench and do nothing for half of a rookie contract.
Yes they are. Once the contract is signed the money is already committed and all that matters is putting the best product on the field. If Eli is playing at a high level and the Giants are winning, there is no need to make a change. The only way it becomes an issue is if the Giants win the Super Bowl in Eli's walk year.
You can say it, but what team actually does it?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/8/2018 10:21 pm : link
The Colts parted ways with Peyton Manning to make room for Luck, and he went on to have two more incredible years. The Packers traded away a first ballot hall of famer coming off an an outstanding statistical season and a 13-3 year. It happens.
RE: You can say it, but what team actually does it?  
Milton : 2/8/2018 11:33 pm : link
In comment 13827265 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
The Colts parted ways with Peyton Manning to make room for Luck, and he went on to have two more incredible years. The Packers traded away a first ballot hall of famer coming off an an outstanding statistical season and a 13-3 year. It happens.
Manning was due $25M the following year and was coming off serious surgery. Rodgers sat for three years before being given the starting job after Favre retired and then unretired in July.
Outrageous...  
NYG07 : 2/9/2018 12:00 am : link
The 49ers still have a shit load of cap space to burn this offseason too after this deal. They are going all in to win with him.

But they won't have that cap space for long..I will continue to advocate for a max QB contract in the next CBA. This whole situation with QBs one upping each other to be highest paid player in NFL history is getting ridiculous.
...  
christian : 2/9/2018 6:36 am : link
Looks like there's 74M in guarantees, which makes him roughly the 3rd highest paid QB.

The only change needed is the dishonest clock bait "highest paid ever" headline lure.

The system is working exactly as designed. He's going from .03% of cap to likely 15% in his 2nd contract.

Like it or not, the CBA gets money out of unproven hands into productive, young vets.

.  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2018 9:16 am : link
Quote:

Adam Schefter
‏Verified account @AdamSchefter
2h2 hours ago

If Jimmy Garoppolo completes his new $137.5 million contact, he will earn more in five years than the $135.4 million that Tom Brady earned in his first 14 NFL seasons.

Dude has looked good in his limited  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/9/2018 9:43 am : link
PT, but so did Matt Flynn. A lot of $ to give him. SF must be convinced he's the real deal. We'll see.
RE: .  
christian : 2/9/2018 9:45 am : link
In comment 13827384 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Quote:



Adam Schefter
‏Verified account @AdamSchefter
2h2 hours ago

If Jimmy Garoppolo completes his new $137.5 million contact, he will earn more in five years than the $135.4 million that Tom Brady earned in his first 14 NFL seasons.




That's a weird figure - so in point of fact in his first 9 years Garappolo will have earned more than Brady did in his first 14 years? Factoring in both played 3-4 years on modest rookie deals, and then got big extensions, and accounting for the big increase in the cap, and that 14 years doesn't factor in arguably the most lucrative cash years for Brady, not sure what to think of this.
I think the major difference  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2018 9:53 am : link
and the point of the tweet is that Brady signed multiple (?) extensions AFTER he had won Super Bowls (and been named MVP).

Jimmy G signed this mega deal after starting 6 games.
RE: RE: You can say it, but what team actually does it?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/9/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 13827280 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13827265 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


The Colts parted ways with Peyton Manning to make room for Luck, and he went on to have two more incredible years. The Packers traded away a first ballot hall of famer coming off an an outstanding statistical season and a 13-3 year. It happens.

Manning was due $25M the following year and was coming off serious surgery. Rodgers sat for three years before being given the starting job after Favre retired and then unretired in July.


If the argument is 'all that matters is putting the best product on the field', not playing Peyton Manning would be the opposite. And Rodgers, as the 24th overall pick, signed for peanuts compared to the contract a #2 overall quarterback would get according to draft slot. It's far easier to sit a player who has a 5 year 7 million dollar contract. Estimates on the 2018 #2 overall slot are around 31 million.
RE: I think the major difference  
christian : 2/9/2018 10:01 am : link
In comment 13827425 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
and the point of the tweet is that Brady signed multiple (?) extensions AFTER he had won Super Bowls (and been named MVP).

Jimmy G signed this mega deal after starting 6 games.


Sure, just seems like a cherry picked window of time to make the point. No doubt Brady accomplished a much more before signing his first extension.
It will be interesting to see how they structure his cap number  
Jay on the Island : 2/9/2018 11:08 am : link
With the huge amount of cap room this year it would be better for the long term if they had a massive cap hit this year.
49ers  
Giantslifer : 2/9/2018 5:47 pm : link
Stupid.Stupid. Stupid.
They could have franchised him for a year, seen if 2017 was real . If next year he proves himself- go ahead and give him big bucks.
What if he turns out to be Matt Cassel?
I get the wanting to make a big splash. If wrong you killed 49ers for at least 5 years .
The Patriots do not let players in their prime leave.
I don't agree with it  
jpennyva : 2/9/2018 6:52 pm : link
But good for Garoppolo. He could play the five years and retire sitting pretty if we wanted to.

It's going to feel like an eternity between now and the draft. I am not sold on any of the QBs for a variety of reasons (I want the Giants to take Barkley) but I am going to trust DG to make the right decision.
...  
christian : 2/9/2018 8:54 pm : link
The 9ers also have the 89% of cap salary floor to hit for the 2017-2020 window. They came into this off-season approaching 120M in space. They could absorb his entire guarantee this year and still be fine.

They just put 37M on him and have almost 80M in cap space right now.
RE: 49ers  
arcarsenal : 2/9/2018 9:18 pm : link
In comment 13827984 Giantslifer said:
Quote:
Stupid.Stupid. Stupid.
They could have franchised him for a year, seen if 2017 was real . If next year he proves himself- go ahead and give him big bucks.
What if he turns out to be Matt Cassel?
I get the wanting to make a big splash. If wrong you killed 49ers for at least 5 years .
The Patriots do not let players in their prime leave.


Actually, Belichick was pretty miffed that this happened. So the whole narrative that this just something NE would do if JG was worth a shit is nonsense.

Secondly, comments that suggest this could "kill the 49ers for at least 5 years" just tell me you don't understand the salary cap or the way the deal is structured.

They're actually pretty well protected if he sucks and can easily get out of this deal midway through and recoup cap space.
...  
christian : 2/10/2018 9:51 am : link
Looking at the cap breakdown - they can cut him after 2 years and only incur about 4M in dead money.

There's no doubt he's walking away from this a very wealthy man - but this isn't the outrageous deal the headlines made this out to be.
RE: RE: RE: You can say it, but what team actually does it?  
Milton : 2/10/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13827435 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13827280 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13827265 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


The Colts parted ways with Peyton Manning to make room for Luck, and he went on to have two more incredible years. The Packers traded away a first ballot hall of famer coming off an an outstanding statistical season and a 13-3 year. It happens.

Manning was due $25M the following year and was coming off serious surgery. Rodgers sat for three years before being given the starting job after Favre retired and then unretired in July.



If the argument is 'all that matters is putting the best product on the field', not playing Peyton Manning would be the opposite. And Rodgers, as the 24th overall pick, signed for peanuts compared to the contract a #2 overall quarterback would get according to draft slot. It's far easier to sit a player who has a 5 year 7 million dollar contract. Estimates on the 2018 #2 overall slot are around 31 million.
Hey, you're the one who used Rodgers to support your argument, I was just pointing out that Favre retired before he was traded. And Peyton was coming off pretty serious surgery and had a balloon payment due that was going to require re-working his contract if they didn't release him.

The situation will be fluid and dependent on a variety of factors that will play themselves out. If the Giants win the Super Bowl next year, I doubt they cut Eli just because too much cap room is sitting on the bench in the form of 22 year old Josh Rosen. The average salaries of Eli and Rosen combined will be less than that of Garoppolo or Cousins individually. And as the salary cap goes up several million dollars each year, it won't be an issue going forward.
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