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NFT: Rangers getting their ass kicked

bluesince56 : 2/7/2018 9:29 pm
at home tonight. This is really a bad team
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RE: Arc  
arcarsenal : 2/15/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13833384 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
watch us beat NYI for the 2nd time in like 6 years tonight now that we have nothing to play for.


LOL, yeah - it would be very typical.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/15/2018 12:36 pm : link
Thanks, pj. I think the non-contender argument would be more valid this past off-season, but I think you have to be a contender to pay up for McDonagh with only a season left.
RE: .....  
pjcas18 : 2/15/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13833446 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Thanks, pj. I think the non-contender argument would be more valid this past off-season, but I think you have to be a contender to pay up for McDonagh with only a season left.


Maybe, but you can always trade for him with the plans to extend him like MTL did with Drouin. Drouin was an RFA, but it was a risk to acquire him without the contract and instead of a bridge deal, the habs signed him long-term (as much as I hated that trade it would have been a disaster if they only had Drouin for two seasons).

the pool of contenders in May/June is far greater than the pool of contenders in February. Practically every team believes they can win in the upcoming season.
RE: RE: .....  
MetsAreBack : 2/15/2018 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13833453 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13833446 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


Thanks, pj. I think the non-contender argument would be more valid this past off-season, but I think you have to be a contender to pay up for McDonagh with only a season left.



Maybe, but you can always trade for him with the plans to extend him like MTL did with Drouin. Drouin was an RFA, but it was a risk to acquire him without the contract and instead of a bridge deal, the habs signed him long-term (as much as I hated that trade it would have been a disaster if they only had Drouin for two seasons).

the pool of contenders in May/June is far greater than the pool of contenders in February. Practically every team believes they can win in the upcoming season.


Obviously depends if we want a few draft picks (will get higher return now)... or specific young players in return (would get a better return this summer).

Personally I'd rather deal these guys now so we end up with higher lottery odds. And I of course fully expect one of these guys - McD, Nash, Grabs, Zucc, whowever - to hoist a Cup in June and score 12-15 goals in the process. That's how life goes as a fucking Rangers fan.
RE: Ty Ronning  
Professor Falken : 2/15/2018 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13833429 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
50th goal of the season last night. Um where the hell is he?


He also scored #51 last night.
RE: RE: Ty Ronning  
pjcas18 : 2/15/2018 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13833480 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
In comment 13833429 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


50th goal of the season last night. Um where the hell is he?



He also scored #51 last night.


I thought I read he just signed a ELC a few days ago.

He's tiny though, he's like 5' 8" so think Desharnais sized.

doesn't mean he can't be good in the NHL, but I'm personally not a huge fan of smaller players, they need to be elite in at least one area to succeed: speed, stick handling, shooting, toughness, and even then it's no guarantee.
God I hope it's not going to be a Tampa deal  
Greg from LI : 2/15/2018 1:15 pm : link
I would have every expectation that Yzerman will fleece Gorton.
Cody McLeod  
Kyle in NY : 2/15/2018 8:45 pm : link
is one of the worst players I’ve ever seen. I think Tanner Glass is better

Now I recognize he’s a great player to have when you’re trying to tank. But I think the front office brought him in thinking he could help, and that worries me.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/15/2018 8:48 pm : link
Welp, looks like whether we're tanking, not tanking, somewhere in between.. we can't seem to figure out Jaro fucking Halak or the Isles.

Funny stuff.

Thankfully it's in our best interest to just keep losing at this point. But it's quite amazing.
RE: .  
Rover : 2/15/2018 9:29 pm : link
In comment 13834033 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Welp, looks like whether we're tanking, not tanking, somewhere in between.. we can't seem to figure out Jaro fucking Halak or the Isles.

Funny stuff.

Thankfully it's in our best interest to just keep losing at this point. But it's quite amazing.

Losing consistently to the Isles should be a fixable offense.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/15/2018 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13834055 Rover said:
Quote:
In comment 13834033 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Welp, looks like whether we're tanking, not tanking, somewhere in between.. we can't seem to figure out Jaro fucking Halak or the Isles.

Funny stuff.

Thankfully it's in our best interest to just keep losing at this point. But it's quite amazing.


Losing consistently to the Isles should be a fixable offense.


Well, AV can't seem to figure it out. I believe that's 10 of the last 11 we've now lost to this team.
Terrible...  
Route 9 : 2/15/2018 9:32 pm : link
Haven't watched many games this year but man oh man
Keep on tanking boys  
NYerInMA : 2/15/2018 9:34 pm : link
We'll beat the Isles again some day, after AV is gone most likely.
I don't know  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2018 8:10 am : link
I fear we are stuck in no mans land - I appreciate the recent tanking but it's going to take some extreme suck to move off this 10th position. I think we can pass Florida - but anyone else is going to take some luck. Chicago Montreal and Edmonton seem to have all embraced the tank too (how the fuck is Chiarelli still employed - he could not have possibly done a worse job. Not possible)
MTL  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 8:28 am : link
hasn't embraced the tank, they're just not very good defensively. In watching most of their games, they almost always outshoot their opponent and out skate them. Just can't score and they give up easy high quality chances. MTL has the 4th worst PDO in the league.

I'm kind of hoping they decide to shelve Shea Weber for the season, though I'm pretty sure they won't do that.

He comes back they could put together a stretch of good play if they can't shed some players at the deadline, they were thin on D coming in to the season, like razor thin, so even with Price playing as bad as he is, a lot of it is on their D - magnified without Weber.

The good news for the Rangers tanking is their PDO is average, so while teams like MTL, EDM, and BUF with awful PDO's may expect some correction, the Rangers are right where they should be.

MTL has a 7.4% shooting % that's ridiculous, Rangers at 9.2% which is almost average.
We have no idea regarding the quality of the shots being taken  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2018 9:38 am : link
as discussed here so often, shots isnt the greatest statistic. We do know the Rangers have more team speed than MTL, and that manifests itself into higher quality chances.

Both teams suck anyway, end of day. Pretty unbelievable that the best 3 teams in the Atlantic postseason last year - OTT, NYR, MTL - are all battling for Dahlin, or at least a top 5 pick, 9 months later.

Rangers have to go something like 5-17-2 to pick in the top 5. Just too many bad or unmotivated teams out there. Vets on bad teams start making up injuries about now too.
Agreed shots as a stat  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 9:42 am : link
doesn't mean much, but shooting % IMO does.

Right now MTL has the 4th lowest shooting % in the past 11 NHL seasons. That's significant.

I know people hate the phrase puck luck.

I know I do, because I believe to an extent puck luck is created by effort, discipline, positioning, etc. but I do believe stats like shooting % will eventually regress to the norm.

So my point was MTL has some improvement in store and the Rangers don't.

Yes, neither team is a contender this year, but for the Rangers tanking prospects this is a good thing, not a bad one.
One other thing  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 9:44 am : link
if the Rangers can dish Nash off to Nashville (sounds like a headline that writes itself), I'd look to somehow pry away Tolvanen.

He's small-ish, but putting on a clinic in the Olympics at 18 years old.

I like him.

Nashville is reportedly going "all in" this year as they sense their team is a cup contender with a window.

They check all the proverbial boxes (though Brett disagrees on one), strong goalie, strength up the middle (I think they have 5 players can be legit centers) and strong D.

I'm not a big fan of Rinnie, but I don't think he's awful.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/16/2018 9:51 am : link
And he's having a very good year.

Agreed with MAB, Chiarelli sucks. Destroyed that team.
I dont understand  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2018 9:53 am : link
if shots dont matter as a stat... why would shooting % matter?

You are saying if a team takes 40 shots instead of 30.. who care, because the quality of those 40 could be low.

That would manifest itself in a low shooting %. Yet, now you say the shooting % is a telling stat. To me, over a large sample size, its just a lagging indicator of the quality shots you are taking.

Regardless - there are only 22-25 games left for everybody.... not enough body of work to assume anything normalizes. You are talking about a ~2% difference anyway, which is two goals spread over every 3 games.
I agree with MAB  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 9:55 am : link
too. I'm somewhat surprised Chiarelli has a job, but you need to consider they were a game 7 loss away from the WCF last year, a year before people expected them to contend.

Even though it was probably in spite of not because Chiarelli, hard to fire a GM in that scenario.

I do think he's let go after the season.
RE: I dont understand  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 13834358 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
if shots dont matter as a stat... why would shooting % matter?

You are saying if a team takes 40 shots instead of 30.. who care, because the quality of those 40 could be low.

That would manifest itself in a low shooting %. Yet, now you say the shooting % is a telling stat. To me, over a large sample size, its just a lagging indicator of the quality shots you are taking.

Regardless - there are only 22-25 games left for everybody.... not enough body of work to assume anything normalizes. You are talking about a ~2% difference anyway, which is two goals spread over every 3 games.


shooting % matters because over time players/teams average around 10% shooting percent. this is something that's been tracked forever. It peaked in the mid-80's around 14% with the small goalie pads, curved sticks and influx of european players (and the Gretzky era), but has settled around 10% the past 20 years.

so if a team has 40 shots or 20 shots, that 10% should be where teams wind up for their shooting %, or close to it. Obviously quality scoring chances plays a part, but that shooting % is the norm teams usually regress to.

When a team is at 15% most people realize that's not sustainable, just like if a team is at 7.4% (like MTL) that should also be unsustainable.

So then SHOTS  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2018 10:02 am : link
are a very telling stat for you. Not sure why you originally said otherwise. More shots, more goals since all players and teams will eventually score at 10% (I dont think that point is true, but i'll go with it)
The Larsson for Hall trade was just brutal.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/16/2018 10:08 am : link
As was Reinhard for picks (one of which turned into Barzal). He's done a great job helping the Metro teams.

Both trades were knowingly awful at the time.

And I agree with you on Nash and Nashville. I'm concerned their pieces are too good for a rental, though.
RE: So then SHOTS  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13834372 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
are a very telling stat for you. Not sure why you originally said otherwise. More shots, more goals since all players and teams will eventually score at 10% (I dont think that point is true, but i'll go with it)


On a game to game basis sure shots are relevant, but shooting % is more meaningful in evaluating a teams prospects going forward.

that was my point.

if a team has a billion shots, with 10% shooting percent the billion shots is irrelevant, I can feeling they're scoring at an appropriate level and would not draw any conclusions about a change in their results.

If they have a billion shots and a 17% shooting percentage I can say that's not sustainable, they won't continue to score at that pace,

If they have a billion shots and a 5% shooting percentage I can feel like that's not sustainable, they won't run into a hot goalie every night and eventually those shots will fall.

maybe not perfect and it doesn't work out exactly that way, but historically the numbers bear that out I believe.

I think it's rare to sustain massive deltas from the norm, especially so at a team level.

It is what PDO is all about (well half of it).
McDonagh  
jv : 2/16/2018 12:52 pm : link
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun notes that right now the Rangers have the top defensemen on the market but if they wait until June to trade McDonagh, other defensemen such as Drew Doughty, Erik Karlsson or Oliver Ekman-Larsson could join the trade market and possibly limit their return. (The Athletic)

He notes that the return for McDonagh is likely to be something similar to what the Rangers paid for Keith Yandle and that Boston and Tampa Bay have the assets that could interest the Rangers. (The Athletic)


Didn't really think about the trade market potentially being loaded with better defensemen than McDonagh at the draft. I feel like we're gonna fuck this one up.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 1:30 pm : link
Quote:
Jim Matheson‏ @NHLbyMatty

I'm hearing NYR would want Bruins' rookie Jake DeBrusk included in any deal for Ryan McDonagh. Ironic, since former Oiler GM Sather traded for Jake's dad Louie when he sent Mark Messier to NYR in 1991.
yep  
Greg from LI : 2/16/2018 1:50 pm : link
Bernie Nicholls, Steven Rice, and Louie DeBrusk for Messier.

Another kid of a goon who turned out to be an actual player. Wonder if Link Gaetz has a son.
Lettieri  
Professor Falken : 2/16/2018 2:34 pm : link
sent down. Looks like Buch is back.
Looking like Ottawa will pick up two points on us  
MetsAreBack : 2/17/2018 3:55 pm : link
excellent.

At this point i dont see much reason to dress Nash or Grabner. Why risk getting them hurt?

Hopefully someone overpays for McDonaugh, but Boston is not stupid (anymore - Chiarelli has left)
They seem to have embraced the tank  
redbeard : 2/17/2018 4:53 pm : link
Just don’t know if we will be able to maintain the level of suck required to move into the top 5
Still my favorite rivarly ... absolutely hate the Flyers  
baadbill : 2/18/2018 12:30 pm : link
dating back to the 1970s (don't like to even refer to their nickname back then ... the Assholes I think it is)
Horrible - Rangers coughing up goals every time they score...  
baadbill : 2/18/2018 12:51 pm : link
all season long ... that, and giving up goals starting games (and periods) ... weak shit ... weak mentally - lack of focus ... just horrible
Zucc is too freaking funny ... hooking his stick inside the skates  
baadbill : 2/18/2018 1:06 pm : link
of the Flyer player before the puck is even dropped on the faceoff ... wtf was that? lol
Went to the game with my son  
MetsAreBack : 2/18/2018 7:50 pm : link
At least we got a few goal songs out of it.

Brutal does not begin to describe how Lundqvist looked. I guess AV didn't want to yank him an 8th time this year though
He’s played way too much  
Kyle in NY : 2/18/2018 11:40 pm : link
for a 36 year old goalie. But he did look bad.

This miserable season has finally broken Hank I guess
Rangers This Season  
Percy : 2/19/2018 8:34 am : link
Cooked. Four straight losses. What?? Lundqvist has lost it. No decent backup in goal available either. In general the team looks like it needs serious player turnover before a return to form can be hoped for.
RE: He’s played way too much  
MetsAreBack : 2/19/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13835860 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
for a 36 year old goalie. But he did look bad.

This miserable season has finally broken Hank I guess


Yeah, I agree with this. At this point though, there's zero reason to keep playing him every night. Let's see what some kids can do - and then Pavelec should be back soon too. No reason for Hank to play more than 10 of the final 22 games.

Also, Hank is a borderline HoF and we've been so lucky to have him - but quotes like this are far too common now. What's wrong with just shouldering the burden and stop with the bullshit deflection?

Quote:
“I have to be better,” said Lundqvist, who was far and away the biggest reason the Rangers improved in November and December. “Obviously, there are a lot of mistakes. We’re getting deflections in our own net, they’re getting deflections in our net, odd-man rushes — that’s where we are getting hurt right now. I just have to start with myself, somehow find energy and confidence to play your game. But it’s hard when you give up so many goals to stay confident and make that extra save even to be solid.”
“I have to be better”  
Kyle in NY : 2/19/2018 4:55 pm : link
What am I missing, is he not taking the blame?
...  
MetsAreBack : 2/19/2018 5:02 pm : link
“Obviously, there are a lot of mistakes. We’re getting deflections in our own net, they’re getting deflections in our net, odd-man rushes — that’s where we are getting hurt right now."

He does this a lot... he says "I havent been good lately" ... but then he goes on a long diatribe about how the rest of the team sucks too. This time its odd-man rushes, other times its 'lack of structure' and a litany of other excuses.

He's frustrated - i get it. They should just sit him down.
Borderline HOF?  
Carl in CT : 2/19/2018 5:19 pm : link
He will be top 5 in wins and second all time in goals against and you think he is borderline? I think he is a slam dunk. Also most wins ever non Canadian.
Semantics  
MetsAreBack : 2/19/2018 5:24 pm : link
maybe/probably he is -- I dont think its a Martin Brodeur open/shut case, and only 5 goalies have been inducted into the hockey HoF over the past 25 years. So the bar is pretty high.

CuJo i dont think is in yet, right?
RE: Borderline HOF?  
Percy : 2/20/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13836387 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
He will be top 5 in wins and second all time in goals against and you think he is borderline? I think he is a slam dunk. Also most wins ever non Canadian.

Absolutely agree.
the bloodletting has begun...  
Mike in St. Louis : 2/20/2018 12:23 pm : link
Holden to Boston for a third round pick and a minor leaguer (Rob O'Gara)...
RE: the bloodletting has begun...  
Jay in Toronto : 2/20/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13837076 Mike in St. Louis said:
Quote:
Holden to Boston for a third round pick and a minor leaguer (Rob O'Gara)...


Separate thread on this
Are the Rangers going to win another game this year?  
baadbill : 2/23/2018 7:39 pm : link
.
RE: Are the Rangers going to win another game this year?  
NYerInMA : 2/23/2018 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13840962 baadbill said:
Quote:
.


Hope not. Secures a good draft position and further seals AV's fate.
Yea, I get that ... but this isn't football with only 16 games  
baadbill : 2/23/2018 8:16 pm : link
... I'm still a Rangers fan (much more than I'm a NHL fan) ... and I want to enjoy some of what is left of the season
RE: Yea, I get that ... but this isn't football with only 16 games  
NYerInMA : 2/23/2018 8:45 pm : link
In comment 13840984 baadbill said:
Quote:
... I'm still a Rangers fan (much more than I'm a NHL fan) ... and I want to enjoy some of what is left of the season


True, it's very painful and strange to see them playing meaningless games at this time of year. I just hope that the suffering we're experiencing now pays off in the long run...
RE: RE: Yea, I get that ... but this isn't football with only 16 games  
baadbill : 2/23/2018 9:22 pm : link
In comment 13841000 NYerInMA said:
Quote:
In comment 13840984 baadbill said:


Quote:


... I'm still a Rangers fan (much more than I'm a NHL fan) ... and I want to enjoy some of what is left of the season



True, it's very painful and strange to see them playing meaningless games at this time of year. I just hope that the suffering we're experiencing now pays off in the long run...


One of my favorite things has always been watching rookies develop ... whether that be the Giants or Rangers ... so the next few seasons should be special ... hell of a price to pay this year being a Giants and Rangers fan .... ugh
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